Noel Paul Stookey – Photo Courtesy of the Artist
By Elliot Stephen Cohen - All Rights Reserved
"I think I understood early on that folk music’s full capacity wasn’t just three chords,” says Noel Stookey. “You could also express social concerns and different nuances of love and spiritual concerns. There’s a redemptive quality to the music. Suddenly we chance to talk about the ethical landscape of America.”
"I think I understood early on that folk music’s full capacity wasn’t just three chords,” says Noel Stookey. “You could also express social concerns and different nuances of love and spiritual concerns. There’s a redemptive quality to the music. Suddenly we chance to talk about the ethical landscape of America.”
Born Noel
Paul Stookey on December 30, 1937, he adopted the moniker “Paul” in 1962 , as
part of the iconic musical trio Peter, Paul and Mary. Along with Peter
Yarrow and Mary Travers, the group achieved massive fame in the ‘60s for such
recordings as “Blowin’ In The Wind,” “Puff (The Magic Dragon),” “Don’t Think
Twice, It’s Allright,” “If I Had A Hammer,” “I Dig Rock and Roll Music” and
“Leaving On A Jet Plane.”
The group
disbanded in 1970, but re-formed eight years later and stayed together until
Mary’s passing in 2009. All three members also pursued solo careers, and
Stookey and Yarrow still occasionally perform together.
A
born-again Christian since 1968, Stookey’s music has been highly influenced by
his religious beliefs. The royalties for his best-known composition, “The
Wedding Song” (There Is Love) have been administered by the Public Domain
Foundation, which has raised nearly $2 million for various charities.
His most
recent work, a CD/DVD At Home: The Maine Tour, is a “live” 24 song document of
a month long tour of his adopted home state.
Stookey will be joining Peter Yarrow at Englewood, New Jersey’s
BergenPAC theater on Thursday.
He says, “It will certainly be a fun show. I think the hallmark of
Peter, Paul and Mary was always that certain degree of unpredictability. That,
of course, also keeps it fresh for me and Peter when it comes to the selection
of material and presentation.”
Elliot Stephen Cohen: In Peter, Paul and Mary, you were the one who
came from a rock and roll background, but I understand you were not a big Elvis
fan.
Noel Stookey: You know, I never really paid any attention to
him until I watched the television special he did towards the end of his
career, the one where he was wearing black leather and sitting around in a
square with the other musicians. That did it for me. I became a fan. It was
still a little schlocky, a little forced, but still, it was a much more casual
access to the man. I had much more interest in his music from that point on. I
tend to look more at the substance of a lyric than the charisma of a
performance.
ESC: So, as
a teenager, you were more attracted to the black R&B vocal groups like The
Moonglows and The Charms than solo performers like Elvis, Chuck Berry or Buddy
Holly.
NS:
Absolutely. Pontiac, Michigan had a great rhythm and blues store with a big guard
dog who kept an eye on things. (Laughs.) Yeah, I would leave the store with
records that really nobody else in my high school knew about because they weren’t
fans of that music. My band and I went on a talent show on WXYZ and won a
talent show with our version of The Cadillacs’ “Humdinger.”
ESC: What
was the make-up of your group?
NS: We had
a sax player, a bass player, a drummer and three vocalists plus myself and my
guitar. We were actually a pretty good band. We were called the Birds of
Paradise, and we were as black as white kids could be in the mid ‘50s.
ESC: Was
hearing R&B records on the radio your first real exposure to black culture?
NS: Yes,
because at my school, we had just one token black kid. I’ll bet there’s not one
musician you talk to who doesn’t give thanks to this great language that cuts
across all racial barriers. You know, music is just what it is. You either like
it or you don’t. It has nothing to do with what you look like.
ESC: When
you entered college, it was a very turbulent time in America, when President
Eisenhower had to call in the National Guard, just so black students could
enroll in a college. Did you see a lot of that firsthand at your school?
NS: No. Michigan State had a very diverse student body. Everybody hung out
with everybody else. I was never aware of any racial lines that had to be
drawn. It was the same as when I arrived in Greenwich Village in the (early) ‘60s.
Richie Havens was a painter living down the hall in the apartment building. We
used to hang out... As a matter-of-fact, when Peter, Paul and Mary joined the
march on Washington (in 1963), it was kind-of like, “You mean everyone doesn’t
think like us?” I grew up pretty colorblind. Actually, I am literally colorblind.
(Huge laugh.) I don’t know if that has anything to do with my heart space.
NS: As
someone who has always been very political, marching against the Vietnam War
and endorsing Eugene McCarthy and George McGovern for president, how do you
feel about the two presumptive presidential nominees?
NS : Well,
I really hate to say anything about Trump because he is such a distorted, ugly
caricature of an American success story. Someone who has built a career on a
persona of putting personal gain ahead of everything. I loved Bernie, his accessibility,
the fact that he spoke to a younger generation, and I loved his graciousness.
There are not a lot of politicians who still have that old-school regard and
respect for one another. That’s another reason it’s very difficult to be
respectful of Trump, who in a sense demands that we treat him in kind. I don’t
have any quarrel with Hilary. I think she’s the best-qualified to lead our
country in the next four years.
ESC: What
was life like for you in the Village of the early ‘60s.
NS: Well, I
was working as a standup comic and master of ceremonies at The Gaslight, which
was one of the pivotal coffee houses in the Village. I say pivotal because
Dylan passed though there, also Len Chandler, Tom Paxton ... and many
other really talented people.
ESC: It seems
the Village was such a Renaissance place, not just for musicians, but also for
comedians like Woody Allen, Dick Gregory, Mort Sahl, Bill Cosby and others,
plus it was such a hotbed for social activism.
NS:
Absolutely, and nobody stood on principle. Everybody was really pleased to have
somebody else sing their song or play their guitar style. Nobody considered it
thievery. What do they say, “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.”
ESC: What is
the story behind the formation of Peter, Paul and Mary?
NS: I had
met Albert Grossman who was known as the quiet man who could get you gigs at
important places. One night after a show, he called me over to his table and
said, “Have you ever considered being in a group?” I was a little ... I
wouldn’t say crestfallen, but I was forthcoming with him. I said, “No, but I
have some stuff I want to do on my own first.”
ESC: So,
where do Peter and Mary come in?
NS: Peter
said that I could continue to work solo, but also that Albert was willing to
invest money in a trio. So, we pulled together about a half dozen songs and
played them for him and his partner, John Court. I remember John saying, “If
nothing happens, you’re gonna happen.” I thought that was almost like a
guarantee, and yet we were all totally surprised when the reactions from
audiences kept getting bigger and bigger.
ESC: At that
time you were still known as Noel.
NS: Yes. We
were still looking for a group name, and The Willows was one of the contenders.
Then Albert said to me, “If you’re willing to change your name to Paul, we can
call the group, Peter, Paul and Mary.” I said, ”I’ll take it as a middle name,
but I’m not gonna change my name.” Little did I know, Elliot, about a year
later, when the success started, that my middle name had overtaken me. At that
point, there was really nothing I could do about it.
ESC: How did
the group first become aware of “Blowin’ In The Wind?”
NS: We were
working at The Village Gate, and Albert brought us an acetate demo with two
songs. One side was “Blowin’ In The Wind,” the other was “Don’t Think Twice ...”
We immediately loved them both. Dylan hadn’t really happened. So, we were really
probably six months or a year ahead of Dylan, in terms of public recognition.
ESC: What
did Dylan think of your recording of those songs?
NS: Oh, I knew Dylan from way before we were doing his songs. My first meeting with him was introducing him at The Gaslight. This was not all that impressive because at that time he was just doing everybody’s else’s music, mostly traditional stuff. When he came back about a half a year later, he sang a variation of a talking blues that was so funny and such a clever parody on the concept of the original piece that I realized, “Hey, there’s something really amazing going on with this guy.” He had the ability to go beyond the usual folk paradigm and take the structure and create contemporary thought with it.
ESC: In
1963, Peter, Paul and Mary were huge in terms of record sales, but the
following year the Beatles’-led British Invasion changed everything for most
American artists. However, in 1965, the American musicians responded with a new
genre, folk-rock. Dylan went electric, as did Simon and Garfunkel and other
folkies like Roger McGuinn, David Crosby and John Sebastian. As your record
sales were falling way behind these artists, did you and Peter ever consider
trading in your acoustic guitars for a couple of electrics and latching on to
the folk-rock bandwagon? Was it a matter of integrity?
NS: No,
because that implies that we had a choice. It was really more a matter of
taste. I think if we did switch to electric guitars, it would have been a lot
harder for Peter than me (laughs), but I don’t think the idea was to be
relevant, as much as timeless. I made the choice for a deeper significance.
What we were talking about didn’t need amplification. In many cases, the
message would have suffered because then it wouldn’t have been as intimate. I
think our audiences always felt that they were a part of the process. Playing
acoustic makes everything much more invitational and accessible. That’s not to
take anything away from the amazing musicianship of rock and roll artists, then
and now.
ESC: What
memories do you have of touring with Mary those last few years after she was
diagnosed with Leukemia.
NS: She was
actually pretty much on top of things, except for maybe the last couple of
months. She referred to the breathing apparatus dangling around her neck as “my
new jewelry.” Amazingly, even with it, she could still hold a long note. I
think in her later years she became a softer, lovelier, more caring and giving
person. Those were attributes that were very hard to come by for Mary because
she had a very hard life, particularly a very rough childhood. So it was grand
to see her in a more accepting, loving mode than I’d ever seen of her before.
ESC: I’ve
asked this question of Peter before... Of course Mary can’t be replaced, but do
you think a lot of people coming to see both of you in concert wonder why there
isn’t another female singer to better replicate the classic Peter, Paul and
Mary sound that so many of them grew up on?
NS: No, I
don’t think that the audience who comes to our concerts are in any way disappointed.
I think, they’re kind-of surprised at how much the absence of Mary suggests her
presence by and large, when they sing Mary’s parts. We’ve had a wonderful
season, a wonderful run, and we’d really like to be remembered for who we are,
not for who we might be if we had another voice added.
ESC: Of all
the great Peter and Paul recordings, could you name your three or four personal
favorites?
NS: I would
have to say I loved Mary’s answer to that, which was, “All of the songs are
favorites. They’re like children. It’s just that some of them behave better on
some nights than others.” I always thought that was a very smooth answer.
ESC: ...
and what you’re most proud of, from your long and distinguished career?
NS: I
suppose just being transparent. I ain’t totally there, yet. I’m a student of
transparency. If I can be remembered for the love that shone through it, then I’ll
be a really happy puppy.
Elliot Cohen
A native of New York
City, Elliot Stephen Cohen has been a regular contributor to such noted music
magazines as Record Collector, Bass Player, Vintage Guitar, Relix and many
others. A freelance music journalist for 30+ years, Elliot keeps his finger
on the pulse of the current music scene, as well as demonstrating a keen
appreciation and knowledge of Classic Rock and the iconic artists who created
it. You may contact Elliot with any comments or questions at
talking.with.music.stars7@gmail.com .
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